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Residents Voice Concerns Over Traffic

Residents of Grace Manor and other communities attended a meeting Wednesday.

More than 50 people packed into Wednesday night for  in the Grace Manor and Havre de Hills neighborhoods.

A follow-up meeting is scheduled for June.

Quality of life and safety concerns were the theme of the night. 

David Klein, of Grace Manor Drive, summed up the main concerns that most residents seem to voice Wednesday.

"My quality of life has dropped tremendously in the last 11 years and it saddens me when I come home. This is not a road, this is a highway," he said. "That’s where you find trash, that’s where you find people just throwing things on the road, that’s where you find people angry because they can’t go the speed they want to go and they can’t go the speed they want to go because my children are trying to cross the street to play with other kids."

Rose Marie Russells, a community HOA board member, complained that walking to her mailbox has become unsafe and children have nowhere to play.

"Safety is definitely the No. 1 concern," she said. 

The residents suggested various solutions to alleviate the dangers that have weighed heavily on their minds. Robert Frank, who resides at Spinnaker Way and Jennifer Zehmer, of Grace Manor Drive, suggested speed cameras. 

"Drop the speed limit to 15. We all know that State of Maryland speed cameras are set 12 miles over the speed limit. All they have to do is 27 [mph] and they get a ticket," Zehmer said.

City Councilman David Glenn, who lives on Lewis Lane in the neighborhood, agreed with Frank and Zehmer on the possible use of speed cameras and how dangerous drivers can be.   

"I talked to the chief of police. She said if some would like to volunteer and get first-hand knowledge of speed cameras, she is willing to teach two or three with her officers and maybe witness first hand if speed is really a problem." 

Glenn also suggested placement of speed bumps to slow drivers down or drop the speed limit, but reminded residents that these problems will not be solved overnight.

The evening came to a close with a presentation by city spokesman John Van Gilder, which offered two possible solutions.  

“I didn’t want to play the dominos. We fix one problem and create two more,” Van Gilder said to begin. 

See the attached PDF for Van Gilder's presentation.

The first solution he gave was eliminating the bike lane on Ohio Street and expanding the approach to the five-way intersection with U.S. Route 40 to a two lane road. He said it would allow 60 percent more traffic, increase the efficiency of the red light, and reduce traffic back up. He explained that this would be the quickest and most effective solution for the time being.

The other suggestion was to extend Camilla Street to Ontario Street—but residents just saw this as causing a heavy traffic problem for another neighborhood.   

Jim Clark, of Joe Hill Drive, questioned the council’s timeline.

“I think you owe everybody a time frame, a time table, when something’s going to happen," he said. "I think you owe it to us to say 'Here’s what’s going to happen. Here is the time frame it’s going to happen in,' and to make some of the changes we talked about because it just keeps going round and round and round. Let’s make a decision, let’s come up with a time frame when some of these changes can take place because that’s all we’re here for."

A final solution will require further discussion. Mayor Wayne Dougherty assured he would work on getting speed bumps and crosswalks installed, and see that the speed limit would be lowered.

TELL US: Do you use Grace Manor Drive and Lewis Lane as a short-cut to Route 40? What solution do you see for the issue? Leave a comment.

Bob Slede May 28, 2012 at 03:41 pm
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=000000GQ76231&loc=34&detailLoc=DSTRAF
Running a stop sign in a residential neighborhood while using it as a cut through, my oh my
Bob Slede May 28, 2012 at 03:43 pm
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=0000000KG0B83&loc=34&detailLoc=DSTRAF
Bob Slede May 28, 2012 at 03:55 pm
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=0000000SP0B50&loc=34&detailLoc=DSTRAF
Really, WOW
Bob Slede May 28, 2012 at 03:55 pm
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=0000000SQ0B50&loc=34&detailLoc=DSTRAF
Bob Slede May 28, 2012 at 03:56 pm
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=0000000SR0B50&loc=34&detailLoc=DSTRAF
Bob Slede May 28, 2012 at 03:56 pm
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=0000000ST0BML&loc=34&detailLoc=DSTRAF
Bob Slede May 28, 2012 at 03:57 pm
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=0000004QF0AZN&loc=34&detailLoc=DSTRAF
Jo-Anne May 28, 2012 at 08:13 pm
Not trying to beat a dead horse, but I think we have gotten away from the whole point of the meeting. The people in Grace Manor have brought to the city's attention that Grace Manor Dr and Lewis Ln have become a dangerous set of roads because people disregard the speed limit and the fact that they are driving through a residential neighborhood. The post office even came to the meeting to testify that it was a dangerous place to deliver mail! There are only a couple of outlets to Route 40 and Grace Manor is one of them, we bear a very heavy burden of a lot of traffic (the road was not built for it!!!). No one was called trash at the meeting, no other neighborhoods were singled out as a problem. A solution to this problem is more outlets to 40 so other neighborhoods could bear the burden of a growing Havre de Grace. Yes, people in our neighborhood have gotten speeding tickets, but just because they have broken the law, doesn't give people the right to break the law in ANY neighborhood, they were caught and they paid a price, why should people driving through our neighborhood be treated any differently? As to the trash, I am one of the residents that does chase down our trash as it blows away, most people are working and cannot have that luxury. The lids on my trash cans have blown away or have been run over and destroyed. The trash is put out in the AM and isn't picked up til the PM (most weeks). I don't think calling a problem to the attention of city officials is "whining".
Mike Tarbert May 28, 2012 at 08:30 pm
Jo-Anne,
Excellent post.
HavredeGraceMom May 28, 2012 at 10:37 pm
A few years ago, the residents of Grace Harbor did this same dance with the city, asking for help in slowing down or eliminating the thru traffic with the placement of stop signs on Canvasback. We were turned down, but eventually got a stop sign placed at the park crossing which most people blatantly ignored (it has since been removed entirely) and the road-narrowing devices (that don't help at all). I was shocked to see the stop signs pop up almost overnight in Grace Manor after that community complained a couple of years later. I'm not sure what the difference was, but I accepted it. I drive through GM to get to Rt. 40, but I always drive 20 MPH or less, and am vigilant about watching for your children. And I come to complete stops at each stop sign. Are you doing the same when you drive through my neighborhood to get to I95? Are you watching for my children? If so, thank you. If not, please slow down.
Jo-Anne May 28, 2012 at 11:06 pm
Thank you for driving 20MPH and being courteous to our children, I do the same driving through Grace Harbour as well. I don't blame the people for using our road, I would too if I were in the same position, just want to keep everyone safe. I have been in this neighborhood since 2003 and the stop signs were always there. Not sure how/why they were placed where they are...we did ask for an additional one at Coventry and Grace Manor (that is a bus stop) and we were turned down for that - don't know the reasoning.
Brent May 29, 2012 at 01:28 am
"we bear a very heavy burden of a lot of traffic (the road was not built for it!!!)."
Yes and no. You bear the burden of heavier traffic, and while the road wasn't well built for the task, you can very well bet it was meant as another path to Rt 40. Either poor oversight, laziness, or an assumption that narrow roads would discourage speeding is the reason it is what it is and that is such a problem. I would almost argue that if Grace Manor and Lewis Lane were just 5 feet wider and double-yellow lined like they are supposed to be, then we might not be having this discussion.
kim hines May 30, 2012 at 07:47 pm
I guess I missed it that people only speed in this neighborhood. I live on a quite street down town and people fly down it all the time as well. Or what about the people that run the stop signs down town. Everyones guilty of taking a short cut now and then, but people just need to learn to pay attention.
Chris Coutts June 1, 2012 at 06:43 pm
First I would like to thank Mr "BOB SLEDE" for updating us on the driving records of my neighbors (myself included). Now can we just forget about the fact we are all crappy drivers and discuss the volume of traffic GMD and LL endure. Why is it nobody from Bayview or Bulle Rock are asking for new and better access to Route 40? (please don't suggest that one way underpass thru the golf course actually counts as access) I have lived on GMD for 5 years and as the Bulle Rock community has grown so has our traffic volume. This is not a sleight against them but just a fact. Sadly they have no alternative but to take Chapel Rd to Ohio or GMD. Why not instead of fighting and berating the community of Grace Manor and Havre De Hills, try and work with us. When was the last time you went to the city or in the case of Bulle Rock your HOA and asked for better Route 40 access?? Please call for these meeting's I will be the first to show up and speak on your behalf!!! I understand that Ohio St. is a sore spot for congestion at rush hour and GMD (at times not all times) is an alternate route. But honestly how can any of you feel the volume of traffic on GMD and LL is acceptable? Before long you will be the ones looking for alternatives because you got stuck sitting on GMD for too long. As to my neighbors in Grace Harbor I will personally start using the Bulle Rock Parkway expansion when I am going to Route 155 and will encourage all of my neighbors to do the same.
Fred Cullum June 1, 2012 at 08:28 pm
You make an excellent point about Bulle Rock. There is an easy connection between Bulle Rock and the Greenway Farm Development that would allow Bulle Rock residents access to US 40 over the Martha Lewis Blvd Bridge. The City has been trying to get the two developers to agree on the connection for years. Maybe it's time for the residents thru their HOA to make this happen.
Rachel June 1, 2012 at 09:38 pm
Wow "Bob." Have you nothing better to do than to post other people's driving indescresions? If you were not so petulant, I would almost feel sorry for you. It seems to me you have that covered on your own.
Naughty Naughty Naughty
Tom Phelan June 1, 2012 at 09:40 pm
Well my thanks to Mr. Bob Slede. His expose' certainly did press the grandstanders into ratcheting down the rhetoric. Nice to see someone from that neighborhood getting down to the root of their complaints without throwing stones at the surrounding communities. Another connection at at the MLB bridge might alleviate some of the congestion. Even with that there will continue to be traffic on GMD and LL. They are through streets after all and Ohio & Ontario simply can't handle all of the volume. It's amazing that no one's been killed at that intersection. There have been some pretty bad wrecks there over the years.
Kathleen Coulson June 3, 2012 at 09:09 pm
5 Feet makes a big difference.
Kathleen Coulson June 3, 2012 at 09:10 pm
You do not live in this neighborhood, so you have no say.
Kathleen Coulson June 3, 2012 at 09:11 pm
Why don't you post your real name, Oh yea, That's because you are nothing but a coward. You are just a joke.
Kathleen Coulson June 3, 2012 at 09:17 pm
Remember we are mostly talking about the Amount of traffic, that's the big problem. They must do something about this
Joe Schatz June 5, 2012 at 10:18 pm
I would just like to say that Tom and Bob are both lame.
Tom Phelan June 6, 2012 at 01:20 am
I was pointing out yet another exaggeration.
Tom Phelan June 6, 2012 at 01:23 am
Funny how the truth causes some to lash out in anger with personal attacks. Way to keep it real Joe! Very insightful of you. Your comment pains me deeply.
Tom Phelan June 6, 2012 at 01:30 am
Have no say because I don't live in the neighborhood? Get real. The streets are city owned and maintained by taxpayers. They don't belong to you and your neighborhood. As citizens we're all entitled to our opinions. If you want homeowner owned streets move to Bulle Rock or Chapel Heights Drive. BTW - ask them how much they enjoy maintaining their own streets.
Joe Schatz June 6, 2012 at 03:52 am
Not sure what truth you speak of, or how you actually define it. A community of concerned neighbors got together to voice concerns over traffic patterns at a town sponsored meeting and you spend your time bashing the community online via posting traffic violations? Calling people names? Generalizing our community and how we behave. I find that very unproductive--and yes, lame.
At the meeting and do not recall anyone making claims to having a perfect driving record. Moreover, you miss the point. Folks went to this meeting not vilify their neighbors from other developments, but to raise concerns over how the 'city' has poorly planned and because of this GM has been the recipient of the mother of all cut-through's. In your need to defend your point (which, I am sad to say, is to only find fault in your neighbor) you have called out your HdG brothers and sisters instead of realizing the main enemy here is the land developers, the policy makers and indeed the city which we reside. Sir, that is lame. Your truth--is that you are deflecting the focus of the problem. I agree with you that GH has been defaulted to be used as a cut through--does that make what we are saying any less correct? The town has failed us. They need to fix things. It is us against them--and no, I don't mean GH vs GM. Respect.
Brent June 6, 2012 at 10:47 am
I see 3 problems with the solution..First, it creates a similar situation that you're burdening a one neighborhood with another neighborhoods traffic. Instead of cars speeding down Grace Manor Dr you'll have cars speeding down Mohegan Dr.
Second- The Martha Lewis Blvd and Pulaski Hwy intersection is not much better than Ohio and Ontario St. Sometimes, it's worse- there is no traffic light there, and seeing how long it's taking the anyone to convince the state something needs to be done on Ohio or just up the highway at Blenheim Farm Rd, I don't think moving more traffic there is smart. Finally-it only helps Bulle Rock. They're still a private, gated community- unless the plan involves negotiating right-of-way you're not gonna have outside traffic able to take advantage of such a connection. Even supposing you can, it's gonna be meaningless 11 hours a day when the gates are closed. So this solution, is only really gonna benefit Bulle Rock... and that's assuming they don't get stuck with the traffic they don't want, although keeping traffic out wouldn't benefit the rest of the neighborhoods. or just puts this argument back in square one. And they don't need it anyway, they already have their own entrance onto Pulaski via Blenheim Farm. It's just inconvenient that residents in the eastern section have to leave the neighborhood and travel down Chapel Rd to reach it because Zachman Way is not ( AFAIK cannot) be completed to link both halves inside their gates.
Ronnie Bass June 10, 2012 at 04:15 pm
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=000000FJ80299&loc=34&detailLoc=DSTRAF
Really, in a school zone and you have the nerve. Everyone at that meeting blamed your surrounding communities for speeding in your neighborhood. Guess you dont care about anyone elses neighborhood and school zones for that matter
Ronnie Bass June 10, 2012 at 04:18 pm
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=0000000CT0ARJ&loc=34&detailLoc=DSTRAF
As if yours wasn't enough in March, your wife got popped a month later. Guess the family cant learn a lesson. You sir, are embarrassing yourself
Joe Schatz June 10, 2012 at 08:09 pm
First, never once have I said anything about my neighbors in other communities. If you were at the meeting, than you missed when I spoke.
Second, if you are claiming that my wife and I are bad people and that our 'citizen cards' should be revoked because of a couple of moving violations you are completely hopeless. I say your citizen card should be revoked because of exactly what you are doing on this forum. Make up however many names you like, the fact still remains that you and your pseudonyms are lame. Bottom line, you make my point, you are here to bash your HDG neighbors and you completely miss the point. The true culprit here is a developer that lied to a community who purchased homes and sought to start families in a quiet, safe place. The city hasn't stepped up to do anything and has consistently shown how it backs developers and poor planning over all else. The frustration isn't with those who use the cut-through--that is just statistics at work. What the community wants is solutions that don't place GM at the center of all traffic in HDG. Is that wrong that we want our government to do something productive? Whose side are you on anyway? You really can't believe that everyone in GM is crazy and/or bad citizens. Can you?? Finally, I appeal to your logical side--you have my name--come see me if you want to truly talk this over in an intelligent manner. I have no problem debating you face to face. You have my address, just knock on my door. Peace.

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