Is Amber On To Something?
Truth be told, I didn't plan on writing a blog post today. I intended only to add another comment to a long list of comments following Amber Woods’ article titled “Would Havre de Grace Support a Nontraditional Grocery Store.”
The words spoken by our neighbors speak loudly. The closing of Save-A-Lot left a gaping void in this town and, at the same time, pointed to the possibility of another type of grocery shopping experience in HdG … in the future.
Bill wrote: “So we may need to scratch the "cheap" grocery store from our list of replacement requirements.”
Rolando (referring to a co-op) said: “Havre de Grace has the perfect character for this type of business.” I happen to agree.
Eddie added: “Keep it simple and affordable year round.” And, he’s right.
Curtis: “ … more people seem interested in talking about grocery stores than politics ...” An accurate remark and one that’s quite interesting considering the lively tone of our town’s most recent election.
Pam: “I don't know if anyone has looked at the demographics of this town lately, but one does not retire here without some money in their pocket.”
Some years back, I participated in a Frederick, MD food co-op named The Common Market. At the time, there were three tiers of pricing in the store. Membership, or ownership in the co-op, was an option for those who wanted to buy into the program to receive great prices on products that were difficult to find in a single location elsewhere. Members could volunteer to work in the store as an alternative to laying out cash. Anyone could shop in the store as a non-member and simply pay a higher price for merchandise purchased.
At the time, the store occupied a decrepit little space in a strip shopping center. Kids with dreadlocks and tie-died shirts used to work there. The store has since moved and has morphed into a gourmet shop with bright lights suspended from high ceilings, an expensive cheese selection, and a customer service kiosk.
Today, it would be hard to tell the difference between The Common Market and a Wholefoods in an upscale urban setting. I bring this up because I liked the store much better when it was smaller, had more personality, and was more affordable. I also believe that a HdG food co-op, to be successful, would need to balance itself between the two extreme and contradictory polarities.
Let’s face facts, Trader Joe’s isn’t likely to come to HdG and the new Wegmans is located too far off for most of us to shop there routinely. A year-round, sustainable, and affordable source of wholesome food products in this town would most likely be born of local initiative. Food co-ops seem to foster a real sense of connection and concern among like minded people. It’s exactly the type of forward reaching, community-based concept that would be embraced by the people of HdG. It's exactly the type of popular and sensible shopping experience that would bring people into town since there isn't anything like it nearby.
This post is intended only to keep this important discussion in the forefront. If there’s enough real interest, we should plan a meeting to sit and talk about the possibilities.
What do you think?
Amber Woods
2:11 pm on Wednesday, May 18, 2011
Ed: Thanks for this post! I was a little shocked to see my name in the headline, but it brings up a great discussion topic again. One that I haven't forgotten about. The Green Team (under Main Street) is meeting tonight and discussing a follow up on a presentation I made during our last monthly meeting, in which we discussed possibilities for a co-op or indoor market in the downtown area. I have the presentation for anyone who is interested in looking at the ideas I've brainstormed so far. Also, Meghan Simmons from the city and I are planning on visiting Lancaster's farmers market as well as a coop in New Jersey to talk about what it takes to get a business like this off the ground. Anyone who wants to take the lead is free to have the reigns and I will pass along the research! Thanks again for reading (and now, writing as well!)
Amber Woods
Ed Rybczynski
10:15 am on Thursday, May 19, 2011
Hi Amber
I was hoping for renewed interest in the topic, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen. As far as launching a project like this, I'm thinking we would need to assemble a small group of investors after putting together an estimated cost model. After that we would need a board of directors, an attorney, and someone with grocery experience. I think the concept of a food coop in HdG would be well received. It's just a matter of gaining the initial traction to get started.
I'm interested and am willing to sit and talk with others who have an interest in taking this idea to the next level. Please let me know what you and Meghan learn in your travels.
denyse
10:41 am on Thursday, May 19, 2011
Having a co-op sounds great if you have money! It was mentioned that a person who could not afford to buy into it or have a membership would have to pay a hire price to shop there. What is that going to do for the person who makes minimum wage $ 7.25 an hour pays at least 2.00 in taxes, then has to pay 4.00 a gallon for gas to even get to work then has to pay a higher price to buy milk. It seems to me that does not leave money for things like rent, electricity, water or hey even a script for a sick kid. When are the people that seem to think they know what is best for HdG realize that not all are rich. I love living HdG but it seems to me that the average person is not wanted here. I used to shop at Sav-a-lot on a regulat basis. I felt that most of the product was great. Yes you had to look over certian things but for the type of store it was you had to expect that. I realize bringing in any type of grocery store takes work and has to be well thought out for the whole community and I would like to know how a grocery store is invited into a community. I would also like to know the ratio of the haves and the have nots to see what tpe of store would be best or everyone. Please remember the people who live paycheck to paycheck and yes I did see many a luxury car in the Sav-a-Lot parking lot shop there. Please think about the average person. My family is one who works hard every day and could use some place to shop that was affordable.
Bill Lawson
12:58 pm on Thursday, May 19, 2011
"Non-members would pay a higher price to shop there." That's worded incorrectly. The correct wording is: Non-members would pay the REGULAR price to shop there. Members would pay a REDUCED price to shop there.
The idea is that members would pay via labor or dues instead of cash at the register.
Bill Lawson
10:48 am on Thursday, May 19, 2011
What do I think? well I think "we may need to scratch the "cheap" grocery store from our list of replacement requirements" oh wait.... I already said that! LOL!!!
But anyway, It's important to understand the context of what I said. We can't go to an entrepreneur and request a grocery store with no incentive to make a profit.
I'm not sure if anyone has been paying attention lately, but the downtown part of Havre de Grace appears to be at the bottom of a Real estate boom. Housing prices have been on the upswing for about 6 months now. Not sure how long it will last, but if it continues, we may need to do nothing. Entrepreneurs will find us!
Bill Lawson
1:30 pm on Thursday, May 19, 2011
It just occurred to me that we already have a farmers market in town. (like duh!) Every Saturday 9:00 till 12:00. AND we have the Amish family that sells stuff in the little tarp/shed area on Washington. It appears we want something we already have. We just want more vendors, and more hours.
Ed Rybczynski
7:32 pm on Thursday, May 19, 2011
Bill
The thought of there being overlap with existing businesses occurred to me. Like you're saying, we already have the farmers market and the Amish products. Additionally, a health oriented food coop would certainly overlap with Karen's Natural Market and I can even see certain free trade products like those sold at Doo Dads entering into the equation. Your point is well taken.
Still, the notion of a natural market in or near HdG makes sense to me. As you said earlier, entrepreneurs follow opportunity as does venture capital. I'm thinking we have the demographic if not the population density. But, we're located near fertile agricultural grounds and there are plenty of local producers of natural artisan products. Also, the nearest conceptual competitor is located in Forest Hill. A properly stocked natural market located on RT 40 could enjoy plenty of daily traffic and could conceivably be very profitable.
There's another aspect to this project that's particularly exciting. The products themselves are wholesome. This type of business is good for the community and for individuals, both consumers and employees. A natural foods market in HdG presents the possibility of a business model that embraces social entrepreneurship. Now that's cool!
Tom Barnes
8:50 am on Friday, May 20, 2011
My personal thoughts on the Sav-a-lot is to turn it into an "Amish" type of indoor Market that is open at least 4 days a week, including Saturdays (closed on Sunday - nothing wrong with a little old fashioned "Blue Law"). I would love to have a butcher shop and fish market right here in town (Frankly, I think it is sad that we have to rely on frozen garbage from Wiess or Walmart). Who doesn't love fresh meat and fish? Local farmer? Well, rent out a spot (kiosk?) and sell your veggies. Anyone that has been to the Amish market in Lancaster knows that this idea can work! I lived in the old Haggar Pants Factory (Condo's) right next to the market and there wasn't a time that it was open that it wasn't totally packed with people and the money wasn't flowing - good value for good products, and choices choices choices! If you build it, they will come. (And there is no reason that the local places downtown like Karen's or Doo Dad's couldn't have a smaller spot - perhaps at a discounted rate - to sell a few of their goods and advertise their location in town... it's a win-win situation)
Bill Lawson
12:08 pm on Friday, May 20, 2011
Amish indoor Market in the former Sav-a-Lot building. Great idea!
Dot Hines
3:54 pm on Friday, May 20, 2011
I love this idea! My only suggestion would be to make sure to stay open until about 7pm on weekdays.
Bill Lawson
4:25 pm on Friday, May 20, 2011
Right, I work until 5:00
Captain Steve Weisbrod
5:49 pm on Saturday, May 21, 2011
The idea of an 'amish style' market in the old save-a-lot building is great. In the summer there could be an expanded farmers market in the parking lot. It could be the 'anchor' for periodic marketing/social/arts events at Hutchins Park. If the city repairs and expands the waterfront of Huntchins Park there could be a dinghy dock for people who visit HdG by water. At last count 12,000 'snowbird' boats go by the Susquehanna each spring and fall. I can tell you from personal experience that a welcoming city on the water with great restaurants and convenient shopping (as in walking distance from the water) can become a VERY popular places i.e. Elizabeth City NC.
Everyone got excited because American Spirit Cruises will be here 5 times this summer with about a thousand passengers total. If HdG became a preferred stop by the snowbirders it would be thousandS of new customers each season. BTW the 'parade' of snowbirders runs from april to june and october to december.
Tom Fitzpatrick
10:56 am on Monday, May 23, 2011
That's true. And Havre de Grace is no further off the Intercoastal Waterway than St. Michael's is. That town has been a snowbird mecca for decades and a popular destination for the far more numerous day boaters as well. I frequently run into boaters from New Jersey and Pennsylvania here, folks who have gotten tired of the Delaware Bay. Our still neglected waterfront provides few inticements for these folks. The nearest really usable transient pier is a mile away from any restaurant, and even farther from provisions.
Tom Barnes
11:14 am on Sunday, May 22, 2011
Malls have time stipulations, so an indoor market could certainly have a 7am to 7pm stipulation (if you want a space, accept the rules).
For some reason there is this thought among my circle of friends- and I am just as guilty as they are -that our 'downtown' is Washington St - from Green to Congress and that is it. Even in my mind (and I am trying to get over this) St John is merely the "eating zone" at the corner of Green. Our downtown is so much more and takes in so many other streets. It's not just the "main drag." Revamping the Sav-a-lot and *actively* incorporating it into the downtown is a perfect way to help us all 'rethink' downtown Havre de Grace. It will be truly unique, bringing in 'out of towners' to our water front, increasing business up and down our downtown.
Ed Rybczynski
7:19 pm on Sunday, May 22, 2011
Captain Steve and Tom
You both raise interesting points. When I first moved to HdG in 1999, I was drawn to the undeveloped coastline that is graced by the promenade. At the same time, it is a bit surprising that there's been no attempt to introduce restaurants, outdoor cafes, retail shops, etc in such a picturesque waterfront, or water-view, setting.
It stands to reason, proper use of the Save-A-Lot property, and other property nearby, could greatly expand the town's economic (tourism) and entrepreneurial horizons. I wonder why better use of the waterfront hasn't been explored? You would think it would be a discussion in the forefront.
Ed Rybczynski
12:07 pm on Monday, May 23, 2011
Tom
St Michaels is such a great example to add to this discussion ... which has admittedly drifted away from its original topic. St Michaels has truely embraced tourism as its primary focus while somehow retaining its small town character. Parking for cars and docks for boats are in abudance; the waterfront has not been horribly overdeveloped; and once there, visitors are encouraged to walk to the many small and interesting stores. Just your mention of St Michaels has given me an excuse to plan a visit for a night or two, which is long over do.
Havre de Grace and St Michaels probably share more geographic and demographic similarities than they do differences, and it would seem that with a shift in emphasis our little town could become a tourism mecca of the same magnitude.
Tom Fitzpatrick
7:39 pm on Monday, May 23, 2011
I was there today on business. The Gallery I called on said they had had a great weekend, and there were people walking the streets and shopping.....on MONDAY.. And it isn't even Memorial Day yet!
Tom Barnes
12:14 pm on Monday, May 23, 2011
I haven't figured out why *decades* ago HdG didn't follow in St Michael's foots steps. It isn't too late and we have the right leadership - it's just a matter of moving forward and not being afraid to make sme major changes not just in building but in the way we think of ouor town. We want economic development... well, providing things like a natural market aren't really going to bring that in (tho I like the idea, just not on the Bay). An Amish style market, some expanded docks and <future> smart planning along the banks of the Bay and along the Susquehanna (Yes, the Susquehanna...the quarry can't last forever) will do that.
Tom Fitzpatrick
7:45 pm on Monday, May 23, 2011
I sat on a task force that reccommended transient docs on the area in front of the parking lot behind the water plant, with a long finger pier adjacent to the Tidewater Grille for the cruise ship. We also reccomended a Downtown Promenade to run from the Legion around to Green Street. Alas, it never got beyond a sketch plan. I know that the Mayor has mentioned putting docks in a Green Street, but that is a pretty inhospitable spot to tie up a boat. The docks that Seneca Point Condos put in there only lasted a few years before being removed. Nobody ever tied up a boat there more than once. You got bounced, banged and beat all to hell by the wakes and wind trapped in that corner.
Having said that, Mayor Dougherty has shown more intrest and enthusiasm for this sort of development than anyone we've had in city hall for nearly a decade. Maybe, we can move forward with some of these ideas now!!!!
Anne Peterson
10:54 am on Monday, June 27, 2011
We need a Fresh & Easy. It is whole foods like and super inexpensive.
Someone figure out how to get one of these.
www.freshandeasy.com
Amazing place.